Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

At the request of the band's management and as a result of the band's recent policy change, Dave Matthews Band concerts (as well as Dave Matthews solo concerts and Dave and Tim shows) have been removed from the Internet Archive. We're very sorry about this unfortunate turn of events but feel like it is important to honor the wishes of the band and its management.

We encourage fans to contact the band and its management to express your thoughts on the matter. If you choose to do so, please be courteous and polite and perhaps the band will see the inherent value in having their music preserved forever.

Thank you for your understanding!

Also, if I've missed a show or two on any of the servers, please let me know ASAP.

Jon

This post was modified by Jonathan Aizen on 2003-01-17 18:34:06

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

I am glad that this has been done. The access to shows on this site is WAY too easy. If their wasn't anonymous access, the band's management would have no problem with this site. I am not saying that easy = bad, but the real fact is that people that want to download shows to sell on eBay can get the stuff here easier than a private FTP. It's also good to lighten the load here too.... the DMB downloads were killing the bandwidth (and no bashing.... I am a huge DMB fan).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wspfan Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

not many people attempt to sell live shows on ebay.. first off they get hounded by the geeks that search ebay for people selling stuff.. thats a lame reason.. who would pay when its all out there for free??? DMB management is really lame for doing this..

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Does this make all bands that aren't on the Archive lame? How about Phish? C'mon, the band is trying to protect itself. I am not saying that I like the move, but people that are whining about it, need to get over it. There are still TONS of private servers with DMB shows on them. People are just way too lazy an impatient. There is too much of a "give me now" attitude.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wspfan Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

yeah i would say phish is too.. but thats a whole different story. if there so worried about protecting the music why do they let people tape the shows?? isnt the whole point to spread there music to as many as possible and increase there fan base which in turns bring them more profit with cd/dvd/ticket/merchandise sales?? as if either DMB or Phish needs more profit..

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

No. No. No. The band used taping as a method to spread the word about themselves in the beginning. The DMB doesn't need more money and they know that. Why do you think the DMB is one of the most charitably giving bands out there? They aren't protecting the music. They are protecting what they think is "right" about access to the music.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

but the real fact is that people that want to download shows to sell on eBay can get the stuff here easier than a private FTP

And the people who used to pay for stuff on Ebay were able to keep their cash in check and come here instead...

-Brad

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Yeah, in theory that works, but in reality it doesn't. Many people (I hate to say this) are stupid and pay for shows. Most poeple don't even know about sites like this.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

but in reality it doesn't.

How do people find out about the Archive? Word of mouth. And how do people know about bootlegs?

If the band hadn't lost their balls, they could have easily fixed the bootleg situation. Leave them on here for the next 12 months and try to find one DMB fan who doesn't know how to track down a show...

I don't care much for DMB, but this movement is in the wrong direction IMO. DMB carries a big stick, whether folks like it or not.

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-01-17 19:13:26

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Did CD sales go away when Napster came along? No. Will bootlegs go away because of Archive.org? No.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

No offense, but that example is extrememly different. The artists spoke out AGAINST napster. The artists here do not.

If a band makes it's shows available for free, it puts bootleggers out of business. Pure and simple. Nobody is going to pay for something that they are encouraged to get for free. The only people getting ripped off when the music is free is the bootlegger because his monopoly has dissolved.

Besides, how many fans would have sit by and watched it happen? All it takes is a few posts to fan lists, a few flyers at shows and everyone sees the light.

No, people are not that stupid...

Seriously, why spread that mode of thinking?

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-01-17 19:49:43

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

That makes ZERO sense. Free is free, whether it is live music or studio music. People will still buy bootlegs. My point is that this site as well as antsmarching.org have made it too easy for any person to get shows.

And by the way, the bad doesn't put the shows out there for the public, THE TAPERS DO. Just a pet peeve of mine.


Your post:
No offense, but that example sucks and is totally irrelevant because the Napster/Record company debate is totally different than this.

If a band makes it's shows available for free, it puts bootleggers out of business. Pure and simple. Nobody is going to pay for something that they can get for free - especially when the artist is perfectly fine with it happening. The only people getting ripped off when the music is free is the bootlegger because his monopoly has dissolved.

No, people are not that stupid...

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-01-17 19:31:16

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 17, 2003 12:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

My bottom line is that I love this site. I love the bands that want this to happen. In my opinion, allowing folks to download here not only gives potential and existing fans a place to get some more of your music, but discourages the illegal exchange of money for it too.

I don't want them to take your mode of thought on, because suddenly they all leave and we're all without a place to get the music we love (case in point DMB tonight who obviously thinks like you). Am I selfish? Maybe. It depends on how you look at it. As most of you know, we're doing bands like Topaz and Lotus (for example) a huge favor. We sell tickets for tons of them. I would never have listened to Lotus had Jon not tracked down permission from them. Now I can't wait till they stop into Boston (alas, that seems to be taking forever).

Maybe DMB decided that they don't need that favor anymore and that Ebay can pick up their hand in the mix again. I pray that this trend ends here. With the inclusion of moe. recently, my hopes are up.

By the way, I don't mean any offense aroth, just an extreme disagreement in opinion than yours.

And by the way, the bad doesn't put the shows out there for the public, THE TAPERS DO. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Maybe, but the band sure can take it away quick.

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-01-17 20:43:52

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: karl spackler Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

what great news, as much as I truly love DMB and have since being with them in their early VA days. It always seemed weird that a band with comparatively little variation from show to show is in an archive with all these incredible bands with much more improvisation and variation. this archive is a great museum of information for future generations. but only when the information changes significantly is it really worthy of preservation and archival in my opinion. also their undeniable classification as a truly 'pop' band obviously was causing massive bandwith difficulties. just my opinion, not insinuating inferiority or superiority.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffsuspect Date: Jan 18, 2003 12:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

As much as people are happy about this move "because of the bandwidth" should really step back and think about what that means. That means that the Archive has begun to burst at the seams with so much good music that it can hardly spread it all! What a wonderful thought! When this first started I don't think any of us thought it would actually get this big or this popular (well maybe Jon and Brewster). Well anyway, I would just like to say that any band the decides to "opt out" or pull out of this wonderful project is really taking a step backwards. If you make your live recordings prevelant on a site like this one, you losing money on having your bootlegged recordings sold, basically goes away (with enough advertising of the site).

Archive also offers complete control...Pull a certain show date cuz you are going to commercially release it??? NO PROBLEM!!! Anyway....step backwards in my humble opinion - and it's only that.....opinion.

later,
...tom

This post was modified by suspect on 2003-01-18 08:06:56

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: buzzy Date: Jan 23, 2003 12:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Well, there's nothing in the band policy that says you can't keep UPLOADING shows to archive.org.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jan 23, 2003 8:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Er Buzzy, all uploading would do is needlessly cram archive storage area spaces with extra files that people would not access. So that's not recommended IMO.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: buzzy Date: Jan 23, 2003 10:03pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Er perhaps not. But given that the band remains taper, trader and download friendly, perhaps the objective endures to maintain a working er archive of reference copies of music that you want to preserve and circulate.

It would presumably be a first at archive.org, but DMBs policy wouldn't appear to bar the use of a non-public archive among a community of fans. The etree/DMB community could organize access by FTP siteops within the fan community. (For example, antsmarching has a qualification process for siteops.) And yes, it could be done elsewhere or in another way.

Maybe it's a stretch and far fetched and may not be the best use of resources (though at that point it's a far different set of resources). The situation is unique and the appropriate path isn't clear.

If what you're really saying is that DMB is more of a strain than archive.org can handle, then just have that discussion honestly.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jmccully41 Date: May 1, 2010 8:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

If anyone is interested in obtaining DMB, D+T, Dave Solo, or comps, then either (1) go to dreamingtree.org or (2) contact me. Just about every major DMB taper uploads their shows at dreamingtree.org, now granted every show is not on there all the time due to lack of seeds, but if you request nicely, then someone will upload it for you. However, if you request a show during non tour season, then it might take a week or two for someone to upload. On the otherhand, go to dmbexchange.com, and look a the middle of the page for jmccully61, that is me, click on it, and those are all of my shows. I am more than willing to share my collection with people. At this point in time I have around the 5th most different "shows" (they include DMB, D+T, D+F, Dave Solo, DMB on the radio dong promos, comps, etc) with right about 1,600. Also, I do have shows in 24 bit, but 24 bit shows were scare until 2008. My email is jmccully61@yahoo.com

I could be completely wrong on the following, but from what I have gathered DMB did not want to be on archive because of the lack of community. I believe DMB wanted to stay away from people just downloading their shows, and not discussing them with other fans. Dreamingtree (DT) is a small but great circle of very knowledgeable DMB fans, and is probably my favorite group on the internet. On the otherhand, there are some shows at antsmarching.org; however, I would avoid that site like the plague. The members there compete to see who is the "greatest DMB fans", if you say something stupid, then they will make you feel like a moron, and there are not many people willing to help you there (there are a few, but far and few between). The other problem is their actions contradict what DMB's music is about, which makes the hole site a joke. In fact, I was banned for 2 weeks because I disagreed with the owner of the site about the meaning of a song.

In conclusion, if you want any DMB Shows either go to Dreamingtree.org, or send me an email at jmccully61@yahoo.com, you can view my collection at dmbexchange.com Also, all of my files are in either FLAC or Wav, no mp3's. Furthemore, I wont send you soundboards of Live Trax's. For example if you wanted San Fran 2004, ill send you the tape, not a copy of the soundboard that was released. Finally, avoid antsmarching.org because as a hardcore DMB fan I take a lot of shit sometimes, and those people over there will give the true fans a bad name

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Erich Date: Jan 17, 2003 7:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: The petition

UGH!! the petition circulating is horrible. i want so badly to sign something that says im against this change but the person that wrote it just did a drab job. too bad the people that sign it will not help much. Or at least i think they wont, yet i hope they do.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The petition

Can someone post the petition here so that the users of the Archive can revise it?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: /pushkar Date: Jan 18, 2003 12:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The petition

I agree with you Erich. I hated the idea of the petition in the first place. A standard email would have better so each fan could have emailed it.

Here is the petition for anyone who is interested in reading/signing it:

http://www.petitiononline.com/dmbandd/petition.html

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 18, 2003 1:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The petition

How bothersome do people think it would be to formulate something with a better focus? I think stressing the permanent nature of the Archive and its non-profit status is better than the current hostile tone in the petition.

Would it be easy to change the petition? Would someone be willing to do it or make a new one? Perhaps posting drafts here before making the petition official?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: MKnight1254 Date: Jan 23, 2003 10:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Is there anywhere else you could download the live shows from. i found this site like 2 monthes before Dave changed his policy and it's been a God-send for me to get the shows i've been to. i'd really like to get the two MSG 2002 shows.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:36am
Forum: etree Subject: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish...

SSIA.

-Brad

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: scott brown Date: Jan 19, 2003 1:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

were the shows deleted? or are they just not available for download anymore?

just curious because if this policy is reversed and the archive is once again laoowed to host DMB, it would be a pain to reupload everything...

if this has already been covered, woops, my bad

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffmedlhuber Date: Jan 19, 2003 6:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

They're just pulled aside, not deleted. If DMB changes their mind, should only take a matter of minutes to have back up.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jaminbenb Date: Jan 19, 2003 9:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Let's hope they reconsider!

This was an awesome way to get some rare stuff!!!

This place is great!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

I WOULD LIKE TO STATE SOMETHING BEFORE EVERYONE EMAILS THE BAND OR THE WEBMASTER.....

Many of the DMB Tapers (and I am in no way speaking on their behalf, but I am friends with many of them) have expressed their wishes for people not to get involved in actively bothering the band about the updated Taping/Trading policy. The fact of the matter is that the DMB has one of the most lenient policies of any major act and we shouldn't be complaining about anything. Everything we have is a PRIVELIDGE and if we keep bothering the webmaster or the band, we are likely to find out something that we don't want to hear. The music is still free... it just takes a little more patience to get it now. This isn't that big of a change considering this site hasn't existed that long. Jeez, I remember when it was common courtesy for people two wait two weeks before asking for shows. Now the DMB shows are on sites like this two hours after they ended.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jay Date: Jan 17, 2003 1:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

At this time you've posted 10 message in this thread expressing YOUR opinion. I don't see a reason why people can't send an e-mail expressing theirs if they so desire.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Bnoit98 Date: Jan 17, 2003 2:31pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

at least the bandwidth will be allocated alot better .. I cant stand how much the archive has slowed down over the past 2 months.. shit!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jakey Date: Jan 17, 2003 3:50pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Hmm..its still slow..

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 6:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Just a suggestion dude. People are still going to do what they like.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Erich Date: Jan 17, 2003 7:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

i dissagree with this move, but id also like to state that anyone thats pro decision due to their thoughts that it can only fuel the bootleg scene as about the same amount of proof as those with the oposite opinion. The band has the numbers, even though im sure they sway in the direction the band wishes them too, so we can only speculate.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

People here are unbelievable. You guys are acting like the band pulled the plug on internet trading. They didn't. You are acting like this is the only place to get DMB shows. It's not. Get over it.

If you want to petition something, at least make it worthwhile. Petition the possible war in Iraq. Petition your congressmen about campaign finance reform. Jeez, this isn't life or death, nor does it really matter in the grand scheme of life.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Erich Date: Jan 18, 2003 5:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

youre bitching just as much about everyone. Weve got an opinion different from yours and many of us are just discussing it pretty civily, but your whining about how you think differently. I dont see how my comment got your response, but how bout you just shut up about it cause we all caught your opinion the first 15 times.

Whatever happened to you saying youre just going to keep your opinions to yourself?

This post was modified by Erich on 2003-01-18 13:46:18

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: /pushkar Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

what is the email address we should use to get in touch with their management? webmaster@dmband.com?

Also Jon remove the link for the DMB show under the Staff picks.

Pushkar

This post was modified by /pushkar on 2003-01-17 18:45:24

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Yes, email the webmaster. That is where all legal questions go according to dmband.com

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: john rf Date: Jan 19, 2003 12:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Is there an e-mail address by which we can contact DMB to encourage them to change their policy?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: /pushkar Date: Jan 19, 2003 2:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

webmaster@dmband.com

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: tucker Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

jon, did you talk with managment specificaly? And if so, what did they say? I'm very curious about the exact reasoning and the problem with the archive. Maybe there is a way around this...

anyways, this ruins my night!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 11:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Okay, I am friends with many of the tapers. There have been many emails back and forth with the band's webmaster. The problem is with the anonymous downloading of shows. They don't won't public logins. Here is just one of the emails from the webmaster:

---Forwarded Message---
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:27:02 -0500
From: "webmaster"
Subject: Re: DMB Taping policy question
To:
-----------------------
Please disregard any previous emails about this policy. As of the present, audio files posted for general download are no longer permitted, and until further notice they should be removed
from sites. Person-to-person transfer of audio files--FTP, for example--is an appropriate form of trading. Please follow these guidelines until further notice.

Best,

DMB Webmaster

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: TwoStone41 Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

I thought they said it was OK for sites with forums (i.e. communities).

This is a sad day in DMB history :(

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: aroth01 Date: Jan 17, 2003 10:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Dave Matthews Band and the Internet Archive

Note the key word "public" from the new portion of the taping policy. That is why this site had to pull the shows. The band doesn't want anonymous logins. Anyway here's the actual policy:

In addition to helping fans recreate the live experience, we hope tape trading will foster greater interaction within the fan community. Any method of trading that does not involve personal fan interaction defeats the spirit of this goal of the taping policy and is not authorized. In particular, posting audio or video files on web sites for streaming to or downloading by the public, is not authorized.